hey everybody welcome in it’s another episode of landmark live we’re thrilled to have you with us it’s another exciting show and guess what everyone we’ve got a special guest tonight his name is Chris Kamler he’s back Chris Campbell last time we saw Chris Kamler he was at the cable Dahmer arena doing some announcing but they sent me a ransom note and a demand for money I paid it and Chris is back on landmark live yeah sorry you’re all lost tonight we’re going to be talking about an important topic it’s the Platte County DWI treatment court and we have some special guests with us of course as we always do very special tonight the first Judge to ever be on landmark live is with us Dennis Eckel Judge Dennis Eckel nice to have you with us and this other guy you’ve seen uh some of you may have had an up close and personal uh encounter with him uh let’s hope not but Eric Zahnd Platte County prosecutors with us tonight you’ve seen him on landmark live before Eric welcome in sir great to be back with you Ivan I mean not so much with Kamler but with you it’s great to be back and famed duck chef I understand uh we’ll talk about that and in the baking segment later yeah we had no idea the prosecutor was a chef and duck is his specialty we’ll hear more about that tonight today actually was the graduation ceremony the Platte County DWI treatment court and so we’re going to start with the basics let’s go to Judge Eckel first Judge tell us about the Platte County DWI treatment court what it is and how it gets started sure we started it well 11 years ago we started a planet and the treatment court is now 10 years old we’ve had 159 people graduate from the program you need to go through the program with a variety of requirements counseling group and individual counseling testing two to three times a week of random testing for drugs and alcohol they come to court twice a month to see me to see how they’re doing we have what we call trackers their deputies and they’re signed by the sheriff and they go out and check on these folks and to see how they’re doing make sure that they don’t have any drugs or alcohol and they go through a program that takes on average about 15 months and so it’s very rigorous um and so that program does not exist though unless the prosecuting attorney provides an offer to the defendant through defendants counsel giving them an opportunity to be in the program okay so Eric let’s take it from your office point of view how do you determine which folks you make that offer to hey do you want to be in the treatment court so we’re looking for folks who we think we can help you know there’s this popular adage that prosecutors are all about just throwing people in prison and what we’ve learned particularly with respect to DWI’s is just throwing people in prison doesn’t really help it helps us for a while they’re in prison at least everybody’s safe but almost all of them get out at some point and they get out without having had any assistance in dealing with the real underlying problem which is that they’re alcoholics and they’re and they’re and they drive when they drink and so what we’re doing is we’re looking for people it’s usually not first-time offenders because we don’t know about those first-time offenders do they really have an underlying alcohol problem anybody can make a mistake um the first time but folks who’ve had two or three or sometimes four or five DWI’s by that time we know that these people are two things first off they’ve got real drinking problems and secondly they’re a real danger to our community and what we have found is if we can get them into DWI court without sending them to prison and treat that underlying problem our success rate is off the charts phenomenal success rate and so um look don’t get me wrong we’re going to send really bad people to prison in Platte County but we’re going to deal differently with good people who’ve just got a problem that we can help deal help them deal with and that’s what DWI court tries to do okay now you uh this is after the person pleads right there’s this is not a diversion program right it’s not a diversion program it’s what they call a post plea program and we operate under the auspices of the supreme court of Missouri the drug court coordinating commission and they require us to have a post plea only approach so they’ve pled guilty to typically a felony and it will be on their record remains on their record but they have a couple of carrots that are very important one carrot is that they can get an opportunity to get a limited driving privilege or to get their privilege to drive again we know that if they don’t go through the program chances are they’re going to drive anyway they’re going to drive without insurance they’re not there they’re going to drive without an interlock device those with an ldp now are limited driving privilege they have an interlock device they have a camera they have a gps and so there’s a way to monitor the folks that that that have had multiple offenses and they’re able to get their license back and I think the biggest carrot and the one that probably goes uh often is not it’s not in the statute and that is that they get their lives back they get they get to uh reunite with their families they get to have an opportunity to have a life that we that we want them to have what would a what would a prison sentence normally you know let’s say somebody with two or three DWIs you know let’s god forbid let’s hope they didn’t you know hurt anybody but somebody that just gets pulled over on i-29 what is if that person is pled guilty how much jail time are they looking at sure it depends on the number of uh convictions that they’ve got but you get up to three or four convictions you’re talking about at least 120 days in prison you have before five six convict convictions you’re talking about three or five year minimum sentences in prison so we’re talking a long time in prison instead and again what we’ve learned about the prison sentences is they’ll keep the community safe for a time but they don’t change people’s behavior and you displace these people many of these folks are otherwise contributing to our community in very good ways they’ve got jobs they’ve got families but they’ve got a problem that that is that is hindering their ability to be as successful as they can and if we can deal with that without spending the tens of thousands of dollars every year something like 30 000 a year to put somebody in prison so we can spend a lot less money on the front end and never see these people again in the criminal justice system here’s the amazing thing about the recidivism rate in our DWI court we’ve done the study here in Platte County our recidivism rate is less than two percent now let me tell you how that compares to normal recidivism rates depending on the study that you look at and how long you look at to see how long it is before somebody reoffends normal recidivism rates are somewhere between 30 and 60 percent so this program works it works well and I tell people all the time we just did a DWI graduation this afternoon some of my favorite days as a prosecutor are these graduation days because we get to hear from our graduates how we’ve changed their lives and it’s a phenomenal program you really don’t just want to put people in I really don’t now again don’t let’s understand the right people we’re going to put in jail is that these aren’t the right people is what was the genesis of this you said it’s been going on for your honor 15 years and when I was appointed in 2010 uh our court did not have a treatment court there are 21 DWI courts across the state now we didn’t have a treatment court not one now we have four we have a drug court a veterans court we have a DWI court we have a mental health court I do the DWI court and the mental health court DWI court is now officially 10 years old so um 11 years ago we went to the presiding Judge after I was appointed Judge hall I said Judge I think we really could benefit from a treatment court we don’t have one and so many other counties have at least some version of a treatment court and then he said well you know you’re going to have to have the cooperation of the prosecuting attorney so I went to Eric we talked about it we got together and we put the ball in motion we went down to Greene county which had a stellar program it was a nationally recognized DWI court and we put together a team and I think we piled into three different vehicles and drove down there one morning early and spent the whole day and learned all about it we went to training national training and uh so we feel we feel really good about the program so as you’re as you thought you said it’s not for everybody its but you are looking for what’s kind of that x factor that distinguishes somebody that you feel is going to mean you’re probably not going to pick people that you don’t think have a chance of succeeding versus you know just somebody that’s you know out on a gin Friday and they got a you know DWI I mean this is I Platte County in general is a it is a problem because bars are far away from houses and you know it’s uh it’s probably DWI’s in general are probably a menace uh to the county I would get absolutely you know DWI’s are going to kill more people in Platte County this year than any other crime that my office handles we’re fortunate we’re not going to have a ton of shootings we’re not going to have a ton of other murders but we do have lots of people killed every year in alcohol-related crashes so it’s a really dangerous crime and so we’re looking for in our office are the right people that we’re going to allow to let in but here’s the great thing about the program is well while I’ve got to agree to let them in that doesn’t mean they get in either because there’s a whole team of folks that screens these folks before they get in and that team together meets and decides is this person the right sort of candidate to get in or on there are people that I’ve said I’m willing to let this person in the team has looked at them and said no we don’t think we don’t think they’re going to be able to succeed in this program and so that’s one of the great things about this is we’re bringing together mental health professionals probation officers prosecutors all under the guidance of Judge echol to make these important decisions now the team that looks at that you mentioned the team who’s all on that team are you talking folks in your office or you talk others folks from all sorts of different agencies well we have uh our counselors and they’re provided by Midwest adp we have the probation officers and there’s an extensive report that we receive about everybody that’s you know trying to get into the program and uh in addition to those folks myself prosecuting attorney Amy Ashleford one of the things that people should know is that if the person has hurt somebody in a serious way or worse they’re never given that opportunity those folks are going to be dealt with in the criminal justice system in a different way but those folks that have had multiple offenses are going to be at risk the next time they offend to hurt somebody and so we’re trying to stop that from happening we’re really trying to save lives uh not just the lives of the people that they might encounter in a crash but also the lives of the people that are the defendants in the program yeah very cool hey folks you’re watching landmark live it’s a production of the Platte County landmark newspaper if you have a question for us tonight just type it into the comments section here on Facebook we are talking the Platte County DWI treatment court program with Judge Dennis echold and Platte County prosecutor Eric Zahnd I see one of the commenters tonight says if you want a speaker who is in recovery well we do have one he’s coming up with us here shortly so stay tuned for that we do have a person who has gone through the program so we will hear from him shortly so uh Judge what for you personally what has this program meant to you I mean surely since you were kind of the force behind getting it started that you have a personal investment in it and there’s some kind of personal reward for you to see folks graduate this program I would imagine yeah it feels it feels great I mean it’s gratifying uh we had four people graduate today uh at the end of the graduation I had and you’ll have a guest coming up later I’ll tell you uh his sister came up to me afterward and she said I’m so glad that we have this program here because you saved my brother’s life uh or today the gentleman came up and he said well you all were able to do what I wasn’t able to do uh in all those years with my son and uh he was sober two years now uh and he graduated so that the dad coming up so it feels awesome to have people come up and say things like that uh but more importantly it’s uh you know all of us the whole team we care about trying to help everybody and it’s awesome for all of us to be part of it very cool I would assume Eric’s on same feelings oh absolutely same feelings in fact uh you know uh three or four years ago I was walking in the Parkville independence day parade um and had a group of volunteers with me we’re walking down the street and one of my volunteers came up and said hey there’s a guy here who wants to talk to you so I run over to the other side of the street and as Judge echol mentioned this guy said the same thing that uh that Chad Hanson’s sister said to the Judge today and he said you saved my life and I’m looking at this guy and I sort of recognized him but he’s in a different situation like who is this and he says you saved my life in DWI court and I looked at him I said well I didn’t save your life you saved your life but I’m so happy you were able to be a part of it and that honestly is what we’re doing in this court is we are helping people help themselves and get back and be the people that I believe god created them to be um to be healthy happy people and uh that’s a really gratifying thing again people don’t think that prosecutors care about those sorts of things but I’m here to tell you we really do and uh it just it’s one of the most important things that I think I’ve been able to do in my now 18 years as a prosecutor I’m so grateful that uh Judge Eckel had the vision to see that this is something that would work in Platte County it honestly is something that I had been interested for a long time but it took Judge Eckel’s interest as well for us to get it going okay now talk a little bit more about the testing process and how you guys check up on the folks that are in the program and make sure they’re doing what they’re supposed to be doing Judge you want to grab that one well we have a an entity called tomo and they call in every day and they find out whether they need to go in and be tested and then they provide a urine sample at that testing site and it’s tested and if it comes back negative everything’s fine if it comes back positive then we have a confirmation and if it comes back positive and it’s and it’s confirmed then we deal with it uh as a team we discuss it uh one thing that the training has told us is you don’t put somebody in jail for a dirty urine it’s just not going to happen on the other hand if we have somebody that’s driving because none of the participants are allowed to drive all in the program then they go to jail it’s automatic seven days it’s ten days if they lie about it and so we’ve had that happen before too a funny story about that one but I’ll I can tell that later I just want to say that Chris cam is very thankful that nobody goes to jail for dirty urine but yeah behind bars right now right yeah I perked my ears up but that’s again another story for another time your honor we can we can swap those stories later you told me a funny story the other day you stopped into my office when we were talking about the pending charges against Chris no actually yeah right Judge stopped in you told me a funny story about uh how your uh somebody from your office keeps an eye out for whether the people that come to the treatment court are driving there when actually you know of course they shouldn’t be so tell that story yeah well this was when the program was brand new and we had just started and uh my clerk at that time Judy great person she would run over to the uh probate office on the second floor and look out the window to see where everybody was going and with whether they were getting into the passenger side of the car or the driver’s side they’re not supposed to drive and she noticed this one fellow tommy was walking down the ah down the alley behind your offices here okay and uh she told me about it and so two weeks later we have session again I told sergeant crater about it I said I think we somebody’s driving could you go around and run the license plates on the car two block on cars two blocks over and uh and so anyway uh tommy came back uh two weeks later to court he comes up to the podium we always have him come up to the podium and I said uh I said so uh how are you doing sir and he’s fine he said how did you get here today and I knew full well that he had but I asked the question like that and it was fun it was I said he says well my girlfriend drove me and I said oh really I said where is she back there and I’d like to meet her he goes no she she’s gone shopping and she’ll be back later I said okay well when she gets back I’d like to meet her well if we get to the end of the session I have tommy come back to the podium I said can I meet your girlfriend did she come back to pick you up he goes well it turns out she’s not coming back today she had something else to do but I’m going to catch a ride with somebody else and I said I said oh really I said well then what are you going to do with your red toy with your car that’s two blocks away so we went to jail immediately and it’s it we you know it’s an automatic uh and instant thing the deputy uh hooks him up right there in front of everybody else it’s very impactful and he headed off to jail so he ended up eventually going to prison now you mentioned that the treatment of or the monitoring of dui folks that I’m a tech guy so there’s a lot of stuff that there wasn’t five years ago I mean they you know they started to put the regulators on the cars where you have to blow into them and stuff you’ve got gps devices and phones and cameras and all kinds of stuff man and here’s the other device everybody who starts this program starts off on what’s called the scram device yeah which is a continuous alcohol monitoring system it’s an ankle bracelet and if you drink it’s going to know it wow and we’ve actually put it on members of my office to see if we could defeat it and trying to put aluminum foil between that and your skin or you know we often like to do uh tests and stuff here I don’t think we need to be doing that and I will tell you can’t trick this device wow and um so it’s so it’s amazing accountability um in this program I’ll tell you another story you know sometimes it doesn’t even take uh us trying to find um folks in the program who are driving sometimes it’s just dumb luck so one of our uh now former probation and parole officers he’s actually now an employee in my office heading up our new diversion program is a guy by the name of Eric Allen when he was a probation officer with our DWI court he was driving home one day and just happens to pull up to a stoplight looks over to his left and sees one of our participants driving the car to his left so he rolls down the window and it says hey I’m just going to make up a name here hey Dennis why are you driving what are you doing they apparently sat through two green lights as they had a relatively uh heated conversation about why Dennis was behind the wheel and of course Dennis then went directly to jail he did not pass he did not collect 200. that’s awesome not awesome for Dennis yeah so hey you have to use that name yeah folks you’re watching landmark live it’s a production of the Platte County landmark newspaper we are talking the Platte County DWI treatment court with Judge Dennis Eckel and Platte County prosecutor Eric Zahnd there’s a question that popped up what is the time frame for the treatment plan yeah the treatment plan is in phases it’s in five phases and folks move through that uh over the course of a year um or longer and uh they go to uh group sessions and individual sessions and then over a period of time that’s phased down and at the in the fifth phase they’re only going to an individual session but they’re at that time uh going primarily to self-help group sessions so aaa would be an example of a self-help group but we can’t tell them to go to aaa they can choose you know various programs that are self-help programs so at the end of the program they will have been in the mode of going into self-help to a self-help group that they’re familiar with that they feel comfortable with and it’s always our hope that they continue with that and some of them become sponsors uh and help others and that we always try to encourage everybody to try to help everybody else and so that’s happening as well very cool good for you guys that’s great now Judge before we let you go now what made you when in your life did you know you wanted to be a Judge I mean well did you did you watch a lot of tv as a kid Judge Walter and uh gosh I never I never thought about it I mean it came about I practiced for 27 years right before I got to do this and I I’m glad I get to do it but it wasn’t just so you’re saying it really wasn’t a goal when you started out lawyering you didn’t ever no really it wasn’t a goal well I think I wanted to be a prosecutor actually yeah that’s where the money is not so much the money but it’s the greatest job you can have maybe aside from being a Judge I think it’s even better than being a Judge but uh they’re both pretty darn good jobs uh and uh so you started off being like a hall monitor in school didn’t you [Laughter] I was the av kid how were you okay well then you’re loving all that you’re hired you’re hired well guys hey we’ve got a couple other guests here we’ve got an assistant prosecutor that’s going to come on with us we have a graduate of the treatment court but we’re going to do a little swapping out of the guest chairs here but we want to say thank you to Judge Dennis Eckel and thank you to Platte County prosecutor Eric Zahnd we really appreciate you guys coming on and sharing the stories with us and sharing some information about the program very helpful and very informative thanks guys appreciate it thank you guys and while they are swapping out our equipment you know we’re on a low budget here on landmark live Chris did you know that we are no low budget was when we were down the street with uh with a cell phone and a and a ratty old corded microphone we have kind of upped the budget but still we only have like four of the microphones right yeah that’s where I was headed with that so the Judge and the prosecutor are swapping their microphones out with our two next guests who are going to slide here in here soon but we appreciate the audience joining us and sitting with us through this uh little mic swap out now Chris this is fascinating it is really cool because I mean you had to drink one time one time one time when I was 21 on the nose you did not drive though see right um no you know this thing called uber came along yeah I’ll tell you though I mean I mean we’ve I think everybody who’s ever had a drink has you know had a choice about whether getting behind the wheel or not and you know Platte County like I said it’s a tough county because spread out is what you’re saying you know this you got a bar down the street and you don’t live but you know you live 15 miles away on a farm somewhere so you got to get within walking dead right exactly right you know I could walk to the pool hall tonight if we wanted to but uh most folks would be stumbling out of the pool hall afterwards that’s what we would be doing hey you remember that time we did a DWI episode I do remember that we need to do that again okay I’m going to dig out the video we’re going to come on in folks we’re going to dig out the old landmark don’t drink and drive episode that we did what two or three years ago Chris yeah and that was like our most watched episode yeah Chris took a couple of heavy shots and his uh he got a little goofy uh a little silly and I was goofy ahead of time it was all downhill from there so we both felt buzzed but we never tested above never did as I recall I’ll bet you if we tested an hour later though yeah we’re going to let that thing up there later you’d be mayor Parkville yeah that’s probably how that works okay listen up we have Amy Ashford an assistant prosecutor for plat county uh prosecutor alexander and chad Henderson okay that’s correct chad is a graduate of the Platte County treatment court so let’s start with Amy what is your role in all of this uh nonsense with working with Eric’s aunt well working with Erickson I’ve done that for almost that’s the nonsense part right yeah almost 17 years in august it will have been 17 years I’ve been in the prosecutor’s office but I was the prosecutor he chose to start with the DWI court and I’ll be honest with you when I first started I wasn’t sure it was something that I understood or wanted anything to do with because I was used to prosecutors putting people in prison and so we started the training and as we were going through it I was a little bit resistant I just was hesitant to understand how something like treatment was going to be what was the right answer but after it didn’t take me very long but after a while I got in and got very involved with it and have just seen the amazing transformation of people and it has been the absolute best part of my job and in some ways I honestly feel like it has almost been kind of a calling of things I really love what I do with the treatment quotes that’s very cool now uh Amy you’ve been with uh Eric how many years almost 17 years oh my goodness so almost from the very beginning right almost yeah okay and so did you know that he cooks duck at night I didn’t know that he could so is that is that the your focus primarily is working dwbi cases then for I do mostly DWI cases and I also handle our drug court and I’m also part of our new platt cares program the diversion program that we’re starting oh yeah talk a little bit about that I was going to ask Eric about that but I forgot you bring that up and talk to us about this new plaque cares program that’s going to start well one of the greatest things about being a prosecutor is it’s not just about charging somebody it’s about making a charging decision and evaluating the case and deciding what is the right outcome and what is our goal for that person and there are people who just make mistakes they’re not intending to go out and commit crimes or they’re what I like to sometimes refer to as young and dumb and they just need a chance to start over but so we will have a program now that will allow us to not necessarily charge their case but put them through diversion program first and if they successfully complete that then we won’t ever even file the case and so that is we’re really excited about it because then they don’t even have any kind of criminal history and there’s nothing to be dismissed at the end and they have no charge or record and if you can successfully complete the program I think that’s something you definitely earn and so we’re excited about this program yeah that’s awesome now chad let’s get to your story and first of all I want to say thank you for being willing to do this we really appreciate that you’re willing to come on and share your story that’s impressive and we really appreciate your input on this so tell us your story from start to finish you know just the highlights well I never you know set out to to be a participant in a pcdc right you know treatment core by any means but uh you know listen there’s a uh there’s a background of alcoholism in my family um you know for many years uh probably since the age of 15 I drank for drank for fun you know and then the progression just kind of got worse where I started to get into a little bit of problems uh got my first dui when I was 21 along with a controlled substance charge and so I figured I would just plead guilty to the dui because I didn’t want the controlled substance on my record because well I was graduating from college soon and I figured employers would kind of frown upon that um but come to find out that you know later on down the line when I got my second one and my third one you know the the first one kind of came back to uh to uh uh basically bite me to a point where it became a felony I was a persistent offender on a third conviction so but you know I I I truly believe that all the decisions that I made have got me to a point where I’m sitting here today talking about recovery um you know my my drinking was uh to a point where I I had no control over it you know and I knew I was an alcoholic because 10 times out of 10 times that I drank I couldn’t predict the outcome um I also didn’t quite comprehend the fact that it was the first drink that that always set the cycle in motion instead of the last one um so coming into uh you know coming into this this realization uh that I was kind of at a loss I mean I you know I tried to stop drinking numerous times I couldn’t um until eventually you know I I got into an accident where you know over at zona rosa and and the cops came and and they hauled me down to jackson county and basically said well this is a felon and I kind of was just like oh you know what are we gonna do you know I just one quite sure where this was headed um I obviously got a lawyer my lawyer talked to the to the prosecutors and and you know just basically I was I was qualified canada based on the credentials that they afore mentioned and then the the recreation as Judge Eckel mentioned earlier began you know the worst day of my life when she you know ended up being the best day of my life was was the day I got thrown in the in the back of the the cruiser I didn’t even uh I didn’t even take the test and I just said you know put the handcuffs on me let’s go you know I just I just didn’t care at that point but looking back that was the um that was the beginning of my new life right and so I was one that I was in the second group uh in in pcdc uh 2011 I I pleaded in um you know my sobriety date is is october 24 201 2011. so I’m coming up on 10 years of sobriety um so that’s exciting you know and and this program has actually given me basically everything right I’m not but I’m not sitting here because of me there’s a lot of people that are involved with my success I say that in a very humble way that i’ve had to this point you know there’s been a lot of things in sobriety that that i’ve had to deal with with uh grief and with suicide and death and health problems and things like that that we all kind of go through and especially the last 15 months the pandemic trying to navigate that when you can’t go to in-person meetings which has been you know a meetings are my lifeblood right this is how I stay sober today are these meetings and working with others and talking about recovery this here has a great effect on my recovery this helps cement and insulate me from going out and taking that first drink uh coming and working and sharing my story a little bit and talking with others in the recovery community to let them know that hey there is a solution if you feel that you don’t have a way out of this thing you know let’s let’s talk about it let’s think about it let’s let’s really discuss this thing um and so through the years in recovery you know in the program this is everything that they stated and then some it’s it was the most challenging thing that i’ve ever had to do you know and I had to drag a lot of people with me I dragged a lot of people with me in in my alcoholism when I was in my active addiction and and then I get sober and then I still have to drag everybody with me because I need rides here I need rides there I need I need them to be waiting on me hand and foot and so it’s even more of a selfish sort of behavior at first but you know it’s um it certainly has paid its dividends that’s for sure very cool Chris you have a question uh I mean congratulations on your recovery I mean that’s that’s uh good for you man um if there’s somebody watching this that’s 21 and they’re having a drinking problem or they’ve got five duis or in and they don’t want to sit here um what what would you guys communicate to that person if they think they’ve got a problem if they think they you know I keep coming back to it I apologize for harbin Platte County is a drinking county man it just really really is and I know there’s a lot of people out there with problems what what is one way to to to step take one step closer to to getting help I’ll go yeah you know it’s uh it’s tricky I think early you know folks especially in their 20s I think they have all the time in the world right you know that and I was one of them oh yeah I mean 20s I really let it go and into my 30s I I wanted to stop drinking but I didn’t want to stop drinking it was such a paradigm right and there’s an imaginary line that one crosses and i’ve worked with uh individuals who from the ages of 18 up to 65 in in treatment and and through a in recovery you know I i’ve actually I sponsor a couple of guys who are in their 60s I sponsor a couple guys who are in their 20s um the ones in their 20s are a little bit more difficult and because like I said everybody in their 20s all the time in the world and before you know it it just and then once you take you know for me I was I thought sobriety was going to kind of be boring and glum but I’ll tell you what I think one yeah there hasn’t been one boring day in sobriety man it’s it’s been a it’s so funny you know early on one of my first day meetings I went to they in the halls they had all these stuff on on the walls you know there’s live and let live and one day at a time and and one of my first sponsors he pointed out one on why he said it said think think think because you read that up there I go yeah think think think it means I gotta I gotta really think through this because no no he goes that’s not for you he goes you don’t need to be thinking yeah um you know your best thinking kind of landed you in the position that you’re in and so for the first two three years in sobriety you know I just sat and I listened and I learned but you know if you’re young and you think you have a problem there there’s all sorts of resources out there if you got a career path you know there’s obviously eap at your job that you can maybe could talk to them you know there’s a lot of confidentiality with that there’s a meetings all over the the tri county area um you know there’s a lot of great people in a lot of great recovery yeah now amy you you mentioned um becoming a prosecutor it sounds like you wanted to put people in jail more than Eric did I mean you know uh yeah it’s not a contest obviously but you’ve you’ve now clearly been affected and touched by this and it sounds like this is something and I I know uh in in the in the drug courts that it’s just it’s just kind of a paradigm shift on how to treat these problems incarceration there’s a there’s a time and a place for incarceration and there’s a time and place for help I know that one of the questions that we had on the the chat was you know what is all this costing at the end of the day you know the taxpayers want to know what what this is all costing I’m going to bet this is probably cheaper than incarcerating somebody for for a long time I’m just just a hunch just a hunch your hunch is correct by a long shot we’re looking at probably thirty five hundred to maybe five thousand dollars for treatment and we are very very fortunate that we live in the tri-county area the plat the clay plat ray I sometimes get that mixed up which is right yes the levy board um helps provide funding for those for our treatment court and so then people get to enter and then um based on their income they either pay back part of it or they’re able to do the program for as little as five dollars a month and sometimes for free so we make sure that there’s not a cost for the participants but the cost savings is significant compared to incarceration and not only that but then you consider the recidivism rate and they’re not going back and they’re also having the chance to live with their families provide great incomes for their families what they do for our community we calculated up today more than 10 000 hours of community service have been done by just our DWI court participants so we’re making sure they’re giving back as well and so it definitely comes out on the positive for the taxpayers you know to kind of add on that to you know when I came into the the program I was unemployed and unemployable right I mean the the police came to serve arrest warrants at my place of employment needless to say yeah there was no more yeah that’s kind of frowned upon yeah yeah yeah but you know early on you know my my probation officer the they force not force us but they they encourage and well forced to get it to get a plan gainful employment and so me taking that step trying to get into the um into the workforce again has led to a place today where where I am a business owner right and nationwide we have um we have 75 employees here in the united states we have offices over in india offices in brazil um you know the amount of taxes that myself and my employees pay not to mention the business itself you know corporate payroll tax social security and all of that stuff is included and and it gives you know my employees an opportunity to to seek uh their professional career paths and you know this this thing just doesn’t reach the individuals in the the in the program right I mean I have helped a lot of people who have helped a lot of people who have helped a lot of people in recovery so this thing is exponentially kind of branching out there and when you got 159 participants and i’ve I know quite a few of them because I see them in meetings over the years yeah um they’re helping people and they’re helping people so it’s it’s you kind of see the the the extreme benefit of this and it’s it’s not just in recovery but when we’re talking about taxes and giving back to the system now uh you’re very well spoken by the way so I want to give you a chance to plug your business because I was going to ask you what you do for a living you kind of got there but if you don’t want to say he runs the rival newspaper you know you didn’t know that but you got to know the answers the Judge knows the answer to the questions before he answered well you know I work in international logistics and supply chain so I don’t know if you guys have been following any of the of the global supply what’s going on last year so the the things that have been going on there have just been uh it’s been a little crazy and a little hectic uh you know we we export a lot of commodities we’re one of the largest uh commodity exporters from north amErica so it um it’s been fun i’ve been doing it for 20 years I got like I said I was doing it and then I lost my job I didn’t think I was only going to be able to get back into it because of my felony record uh because I had to clear us customs backgrounds and things like that if I wanted to get back in but I was very fortunate enough to have have an employer um uh you know lawful group who who actually gave me an opportunity you know and a couple of gentlemen over there that I’m very thankful for to to get me to a point where I am today can you help me with my Nebraska furniture mart order I I I I it’s every friday I get an email say it’s going to be another week so I’m you know we’ll